LATEST COMEDY DOT COM NEWS

[veronica tghf]

The token.com.au website has bios for their artists up till 2001... I think that instead of updating the token site, they just created the comedy.com.au site instead.

And if token hadn't taken the domain name, someone else would have. I don't have any real problem with them having that address.

It's like the address for my site, my site isn't actually about sticky chicken... it's about a sticky chicken but not all sticky chicken.
Same with this site, it's about some of the major comedians in australia, but not all of them.

Yes, it's a bad analogy but my brain is sleepy. :lookarou:

[Slaterface]

Thankyou aussiechica for your very concise argument... that's exactly what I'm trying to get across.

It's all about representation and appearances in advertising. Because that's what this page is - it's advertising - and there are rules and regulations in advertising that are there to protect the consumer from companies who misrepresent themselves.

Slaterface I don't know how familiar you are with MOSH but when I saw that the post was by 'M' I knew it was from Token, they posted a link straight to the news page in a forum where many of the regular visitors already knew their association. Same for MSG and manbitesgod.

That's the point! - I'm NOT all that familiar with Mosh, I followed the link thinking it was some kind of new amazing Australia-wide comedy gig-guide type thing (and for a publicist, this is very exciting) and then got suss as i read down the list and noticed it all seemed to be a handful of acts. Up to that point nothing had suggested that it wasn't a new amazing Australia-wide comedy gig-guide...

Look at the post. "M?" Not very descriptive. "LATEST COMEDY DOT COM NEWS. Take a look, updated weekly on Monday afternoons: http://www.comedy.com.au/html/news/" A bit mysterious. Then the page itself does nothing to explain. I was totally deceived and had to search the site to find out what it was all about.

If I were posting on Mosh (or any community for that matter), I wouldn't assume that everyone there knew what was going on. Again, dodgy practice - especially for a professional business such as Token.

If you feel that they're being deceptive and anti-competitive, why resort to anonymous online mud-slinging? There are official channels you can go through, such as the ACCC, that handle this kind of thing.
Assuming that they won't actually list any non-Token acts, which may be a fair assumption, but it's not a fact...

Okay fair enough. Firstly the ACCC are unlikely to act on this matter - they have much much bigger fish to fry (and I used to work for them, so I know! Airlines and Telecommunications companies right now!) I might consider raising the issue with The office of Fair Trading after I have sought to discuss the issue with Token.

Secondly, you are absolutely correct about contacting them and I will endeavor to do so. However, I challenge you to try and find an email address or contact details on the comedy.com.au site - there's not even a link to Token Artists site. I guess I could email the individual artists, but that doesn't seem fair.

The reason I posted initially was the thought was that most people often don't question what they read - and I felt the need to bring the post into question - which it has certainly acheived, hence the ensuing debate.

There a probably a lot of people on this site who knew exactly the origins of the post - but what about those who aren't as well informed, or those who just surfed in?

Finally, Veronica -I'm afraid I find your arguments invalid on numerous counts.

The token.com.au website has bios for their artists up till 2001... I think that instead of updating the token site, they just created the comedy.com.au site instead.

That's just speculation and doesn't really relate to my argument. But why not update the token site? Its their business site, it should be up to date.

And if token hadn't taken the domain name, someone else would have. I don't have any real problem with them having that address.

Neither do I - if they use it responsibly - and that is to be upfront about their bias. The news page should be titled the "Token Artists News". At the moment it amounts to "Australian Comedian News".

It's like the address for my site, my site isn't actually about sticky chicken... it's about a sticky chicken but not all sticky chicken.
Same with this site, it's about some of the major comedians in australia, but not all of them.

I actually think you've missed the point of my post. Your site is a fan site and you are not in competition with anyone else. In fact, you declare very prominently on the page you direct people to that it is "Devoted to the Stickiest Chicken -WIL ANDERSON!!", so there is absolutely no confusion about the information that people will find on the page. And therefore, those who are actually seeking a little sticky chicken action can opt to look elsewhere.

[M]

Token Artists own and manage the website www.comedy.com.au for the express purpose of promoting managed artists and Token Events produced live shows.

No conspiracy here I'm afraid.

[Munchkin]

Originally Posted by Slaterface

The reason I posted initially was the thought was that most people often don't question what they read - and I felt the need to bring the post into question - which it has certainly acheived, hence the ensuing debate.

In my opinion all the ensuing debate has done is to keep bringing to the attention of Adam Hills/Wil Anderson/Tripod etc fans a (hopefully) up dated list of their upcoming gigs.

[kali]

Ummmmmm isn't this what marketing and publicity is all about?

You think people get editorial and get on the front covers of street press because the journos / editors think they deserve it or because they spend the $ ??

To think that the public are so stupid to look at that site and think hmmmm this is the only comedy going on in Australia is an insult the viewing public. I do think it would have been nice for some one to use the comedy.com.au domain for an overview of australian comedy but thems the breaks...

If you find it so terrible maybe you should start an overview, I would love to see an easy to read up to date list of all the comedy going on!

I see your point, however I do think that sledging Token is painting you into a very bad light and diminishing greatly from your argument. I stand by my opinion that Token are one of the best artist managers to work with in Australia and they have the awards to prove it.

Cheers

Thanks M, but from your response, you obviously haven't read the arguments above. In addition, I have to keep discussing this on the Mosh board because you have not yet responded to my email.

If "Token Artists own and manage the website www.comedy.com.au for the express purpose of promoting managed artists and Token Events produced live shows. ", then Token Artists should express that at the top of the news page on www.comedy.com.au

That is my point.

And Munchkin, although I suspect your post was designed to get my back up, it really doesn't. I do not begrudge the comedians involved in the advertising campaign their 15 minutes of fame, it would just be nice if the tactics to do so were a bit fairer. When I first posted here I thought this board was a community of comedy-loving like-minded individuals who wanted to share their thoughts and ideas with each other, and perhaps from time to time to have a debate over various issues. If this is not the case, then I apologise, i was only trying to get my opinion heard.

[Beckslee]

Originally Posted by kali

If you find it so terrible maybe you should start an overview, I would love to see an easy to read up to date list of all the comedy going on!

How cool would that be I would love to know all the comedy going on around the country in one easy to read location. That would mean that we would all know where to go to find out this info. Plus it would be good for the comedians as they would know that details of their gigs would be available.

Plus when I go to another state I would be able to find out before I got there if there was anything worth seeing or any good venues to check out before I got there.

But I think as Kali said we have to put up with what we've got. At least we know some of the gigs, and we will have to keep going to various locations to find it.


(On the interstate gigs if anyone knows of some good comedy happening in Adelaide between the 24-27th August I would be grateful if you'd let me know )

[Munchkin]

Originally Posted by Slaterfaceman

And Munchkin, although I suspect your post was designed to get my back up, it really doesn't. I do not begrudge the comedians involved in the advertising campaign their 15 minutes of fame, it would just be nice if the tactics to do so were a bit fairer. When I first posted here I thought this board was a community of comedy-loving like-minded individuals who wanted to share their thoughts and ideas with each other, and perhaps from time to time to have a debate over various issues. If this is not the case, then I apologise, i was only trying to get my opinion heard.

I was in no way attempting to rile anyone, if I'd wanted to 'get your back up' I'd now be waiting out the ensuing ban. My post was me expressing my opinion on the fallout of this thread, I quoted you in what I hoped would be a way to place in context my oppossing opinion.

[Sam]

As usual everyone's viewpoint is worthwhile and welcome, I reckon. I agree with Beckslee that a site devoted to Wot's On in Oz would be utterly brilliant. I realise it would be a huge headache to put together and then somehow control the content but shit. Who wouldn't want to be able to look up a weekend destination and check out the action on one site. Comedy is a major business and some mob not personally affiliated with some comedians in particular could and should make a buck outta the idea. Just like the classifieds - pubs and clubs send in the particulars for say a small amount of dosh, maybe like a monthly fee and their space is kept for advertising the latest comedy acts - you know what I mean.

[hellokitty]

then you still have problems with monopolies.

those people with more money get more ads..

[Slaterface]

Kali - Marketing and publicity is the core of the economy. That said - it must be fair and accountable. The Trade Practices Act (TPA) deals with misleading and deceptive advertising - Section 53 specifically forbids false or misleading statements. As far as I'm concerned www.comedy.com.au can be construed as a misleading representation suggesting "all comedy in Australia".

As for whether you think people will realise that the site is not "all Australian comedy" - an excerpt from the act might help...

Whether conduct is "misleading or deceptive" is a question of fact and will be determined with reference to the relevant surrounding facts and circumstances. Generally the prohibition includes acts, omissions or silence ...
* the matter must be considered by reference to all people who come within that section of the public including the astute and the gullible, the intelligent and not-so-intelligent, the well-educated and the poorly-educated;

Kali and Beckslee - I couldn't make a comprehensive list of all comedy in Australia - it would be a full-time job and it still wouldn't be comprehensive. If I did though, the difference would be that I would allow anyone to submit to the list.

If, however, I decided to make a list of gigs for the acts I represent, I would definitely use my company logo/name at the top of the page and make sure people were not mislead by the information contained in the page.

To be honest, MOSH itself probably has the best, fairest online gig guide in Australia. Not only is it accessible to all, it is self-maintaining - so gigs that have passed don't hang around (like they do on a lot of manually edited sites) and its laid out in a nice logical way (ie. by date).

[SR]

Originally Posted by Slaterperson

Secondly -Munchkin - I specifically referred to the news page because it is the entry point that you guys have been directed to - to find the "this site is owned" etc takes some searching.

What the...?

From reading your comments I think it's fair to make the assumption that you do have some experience with how websites are generally set out... how hard is it, really, to figure out that "this site is owned" text would be written on the front (home) page of the site and thus click on the 'home' link?

I might not the brightest spark and even I managed to find it as soon as Munchkin said it was written on the site...

[Sam]

Yeah like Slaterface said, allow anyone to submit info, and yep full time job alright. Hellokitty, I meant the pubs clubs gig areas send in the info not just comedy management, who could send stuff in as well. I dunno $10 a week from each venue/management for any amount of space - cos that's where the papers make the big bucks and confine the less afluential to one liners. Look I don't know how much it costs to host a domain and you'd want to make a bloody reasonable wage, but even on the Gold Coast there's probably at least 6 venues a week showing comedy times that by (hopefully) the amount of towns/cities that could come on board - you'd have to make something and good luck to the person who'd bother to take on the info and place on the net under States, Towns etc. for easy reading. At 10-20 bucks a week per month guaranteed, reissue deal monthly, it'd have to work and the venues only need to sell 2 drinks to make up the dosh. Ok so I don't know much, but somewhere someday Comedy Info On Line could be a reality.

[Mythor]

Originally Posted by Slaterface

To be honest, MOSH itself probably has the best, fairest online gig guide in Australia. Not only is it accessible to all, it is self-maintaining - so gigs that have passed don't hang around (like they do on a lot of manually edited sites) and its laid out in a nice logical way (ie. by date).

Unfortunately, MOSH is only as good an information source as the people who visit make it be. Even if I went around personally and gathered all the info I could, it still wouldn't come close to a complete list.
And since I'm not the most interested in stand up person on the board and since I don't get paid to do it....

That said, it is still the best source, currently, since other sites like ComicAttitude and ComedyLive don't get updated consistently (sorry Bell and Sharleen), people still want another source? What's then to stop that other source from going the way of every other comedy info source?
The thought has crossed my mind before, but it usually gets tossed on the scrapheap of ideas for various reasons... Time, money, why try 'competing' with MOSH, having to deal with comedians and/or their managers , lack of artistic ability (ugly sites DIE), other more 'in' people already have sites that have been longstanding and so on.

If you just want to email whoever is in charge of the website at comedy.com.au you could always try webmaster@comedy.com.au as most webmasters will have an address like that, or have a default alias in place to allow them to receive those emails.
Failing that, you could try toby@token.com.au as they're listed in the domain info.
But, as M said, it's their site and they probably don't have to let anyone else plug their stuff on it. Kinda like news.com.au since my Telstra analogy doesn't fit.

[veronica tghf]

Originally Posted by Slaterface

Finally, Veronica -I'm afraid I find your arguments invalid on numerous counts.

By the way... I think I should point out that I was in no way expecting anyone to find no faults with my arguments. They were very flawed, and as I said, I was quite tired when I decided to try and post some opinions... hence the use of this --> :lookarou:

But thanks for actually taking me semi-seriously... I apologise for unleashing my flawed arguments upon you all, and I promise to try and not do it again.

*goes and finds a rock to hide her invalidness under* :p