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[aussiechica]

Token Artists own and manage the website www.comedy.com.au for the express purpose of promoting managed artists and Token Events produced live shows.

Maybe you need to say that more clearly on comedy.com.au to prevent people from getting the wrong idea, as well as explaining what Token is to prevent this kind of confusion.
It may have been a total mistake, but what you are doing seems unfair and could be construed as unfair practise.

then you still have problems with monopolies.

those people with more money get more ads..

I dont thinks its about monopolies, its more about false representation. Its okay for them to have a monopoly interms of being the no1 site, so long as they have that monopoly for the right reasons (ie. they actually can deliver the goods, rather then just tricking unsuspecting punters into thinking they do (I actually think it would be hard to have a monopoly on comedy but anyhow..)

[Mythor]

Originally Posted by Sam

Yeah like Slaterface said, allow anyone to submit info, and yep full time job alright. Hellokitty, I meant the pubs clubs gig areas send in the info not just comedy management, who could send stuff in as well. I dunno $10 a week from each venue/management for any amount of space - cos that's where the papers make the big bucks and confine the less afluential to one liners. Look I don't know how much it costs to host a domain and you'd want to make a bloody reasonable wage, but even on the Gold Coast there's probably at least 6 venues a week showing comedy times that by (hopefully) the amount of towns/cities that could come on board - you'd have to make something and good luck to the person who'd bother to take on the info and place on the net under States, Towns etc. for easy reading. At 10-20 bucks a week per month guaranteed, reissue deal monthly, it'd have to work and the venues only need to sell 2 drinks to make up the dosh. Ok so I don't know much, but somewhere someday Comedy Info On Line could be a reality.

I hadn't actually considered that venues might be willing to advertise in such a way... But if you're going to ask them to fork out to list on the site, you won't get all the info, since some people will just not bother because it's another obstacle in the way of getting the info out there, plus there's no guarantee that their potential patrons will go to the site, and so forth.
And affording the website is one hurdle... But unfortunately just because you build it, doesn't mean "they" will come. And without people visiting there's no reason for people to pay any attention to the site.

Webhosting with Server101 costs:
- Basic 'no-frills' account (php, cgi, no mysql database, 3GB bandwidth, 70mb space) $175.20 a year
- Premium account (php, cgi, mysql database, 8GB bandwidth, 200mb space) $339.60 a year

MOSH is run on the account a level above the premium one (bandwidth restrictions used to be lower, we had to go up a level, hoping to go down one if possible), but the premium one is the account I personally would consider the minimum in terms of space, bandwidth and features (particularly the mysql database). I can get it cheaper because I have a reseller account... But there you go. You need to find a way to consistently make about $6.50-$7 a week out of the site. And that only covers costs.
So either you charge people to list their stuff on the site, possibly losing some people's gig listings because they don't or can't pay... Or you list everything for free and probably not cover your costs.

Either way, I'm not sure you could turn it into a job-job, but you could probably make yourself enough work to make it look like one?

[Mythor]

Oh, the amounts listed there obviously don't include the costs of any tools you may need to make the site, whether it's FrontPage, Dreamweaver or Photoshop or scripts and whatever other tools people may need.
I rarely remember that bit, since the only tool I need is me...

If I could be certain I could cover the costs; ie. someone from Token, Access, At, whatever, was willing to sponsor/advertise on the site - then I'd probably do it.
But I've seen the infighting going on in Comedy and get the feeling that if, for example, Token were to say "Here, Matt, have $50 a month for the site and we'll keep you up to date with what we're doing" - then some anonymous person would run in and accuse it of being Token-centric and biased towards them and so on. Same would happen if it was any other agency doing it.
And I'm not sure that if Access were sponsoring that Token would then want anything to do with it. Or if a listing was put up for Comedian X that Comedian Y would then want nothing to do with the site.
(all examples are just examples, I'm not saying Token/Access/At are evil anti-competitive bastards, they're just management names I know and thus am using)


Ummm, I had a point lying around here somewhere.

I'm not trying to rain on the parade because I think it's a bad idea - I don't. An unbiased, third-party site listing 'everything' comedic would be kickass... But there's so many things that can go wrong, and then you'll end up with UnbiasedComedy.com.au not being updated and just another out of date comedy website.

The over-thinking webmaster will go back to his corner, now. :lookarou:

[credence]

Seriously, i think MOSH works really well at advertising comedy gigs. perhaps one strategy for making it better would be to make MOSH bigger by having more members, particularly inviting comedians and companies that represent them to post and update us with info (which kind of already happens anyway).

If MOSH was known throughout the comedy circuit as THE premier place for comedy info and discussion, now that would be cool.

I suppose what I'm getting at is that the bigger and more diverse the users of MOSH are, the more likely companies such as token and access (and the rest) will want to advertise their gigs on here.

[Mythor]

Originally Posted by credence

If MOSH was known throughout the comedy circuit as THE premier place for comedy info and discussion, now that would be cool.

MOSH is already known throughout the comedy world... Just not for that.

[Munchkin]

Which brings us to another topic of funding.

[sharleen]

well, if agencies actually forked out money to help keep ComedyLive running by way of venue ads, sponsorship, banner ads, etc I'd give up all the temp work I do to fund myself and do it as a full time job.

Yes, I would do ComedyLive FULL-TIME and make sure its always updated. But at the moment its almost impossible cause I work 6 days a week - have little time and can't afford not to work.

Unfortunately if I even tried to suggest this to agencies, management whatever all sorts of headaches would occur and I doubt they take it up - they'd rather make a website of their own (like this comedy.com.au one).

Sharleen *as she sits back here at another temp job and waits for the complaints about this post to roll-in from those comedy business types*

[Spoofy]

Originally Posted by Beckslee

(On the interstate gigs if anyone knows of some good comedy happening in Adelaide between the 24-27th August I would be grateful if you'd let me know )

good comedy in Adelaide....is that a contradiction in terms??



sorry nothing else about this topic to state....*wanders back to her corner*

[Mythor]

So it could work with the cooperation of agencies that are mostly not interested in providing that level of cooperation with fan sites? And in order for it to be considered more worthwhile for them to provide some support it has to be kept up to date, which is difficult or impossible to do without the support in the first place to make it viable to put the time into keeping it up to date?

Mmmm, circular like donuts!

[sharleen]

it is indeed a circular issue.

Actually, most agencies are very very good to us dear fan sites and are very co-operative (who wouldn't want to be when its some form of free advertising). But outside of the agencies some others in the industry see it as a waste of time unless you're plastering their dates, venues, etc etc all over the website 24-7. That kind of level of commitment is impossible without some greater support (ie. cash, other incentives). And my issue is that I wouldn't want to be 'sponsored' anyway - I'd rather give a more holistic view of the comedy scene.

[Slaterface]

Well this topic seems to have taken a new and very positive direction.

I just wanted to report that it has been 2 days, and I have not yet received a reply from "M", management@token.com.au, toby@token.com.au, webmaster@comedy.com.au -so if any of you guys are reading this thread - please contact me.

As for comedy listing website - what if someone who already runs a comedy website contacted citysearch.com.au and investigated how difficult it would be to add "comedy" to the keywords for an event and then have a citysearch listing page on their comedy site that filtered only the events that had the keyword comedy - in exchange for a big link that took people to citysearch for their other entertainment needs?

i think citysearch is now nationwide - so it might just work - and you circumvent having to contact agencies (which, as demonstrated above, can sometimes take some time and effort).

[sharleen]

Citysearch already have a comedy listing page for all the states - but again, but it relies on submissions so you'll have some agencies bothering, some not. It kinda brings it back to square one.

If we want a truly representative gig guide you'd need someone to do all the following up, which is something I tried for ComedyLive when I first started. And the way the scene is at the moment, it could be at least a part time job (3 days a week). And if you did try to make the site fully representative you wouldn't therefore be able to make money off it. What a catch-22 situation!

but it does give me some ideas... hmmm...

Have a look at Chortle (UK comedy website) for a good representative comedy gig guide. I might make enquires as to how they make their money, cause THAT website IS a full-time job.

[Mythor]

Originally Posted by sharleen

And if you did try to make the site fully representative you wouldn't therefore be able to make money off it. What a catch-22 situation!

You could still carry and offer paid advertising slots in prime positions to help pay the costs.. So long as the position of the unpaid stuff was not then made utterly useless, it could still work just fine..... Perhaps. :lookarou:

CitySearch lists comedy stuff already if you search for "comedy".
http://sydney.citysearch.com.au/sear...e&query=comedy
Substitute the other city names for the Sydney bit (use the search thing repeatedly to get the other names) and voila!
You can also dig down from that, since that lists restaurants and movies and such, but it's quite possible to have CitySearch spit the results out for you, if that's all you're after.
This is a list of performances.

Perhaps someone in the know could say if that's anything like all the performances in Sydney? I get the feeling it's a decent generic listing, but some rooms and shows are listed over a period of 3 months, giving the feeling that they're perhaps just a block of shows all smudged together without details on who is doing what and when?

And how much does CitySearch charge for a listing, nowadays? I vaguely remember trying to get Cardsmyth listed, back in the day, and being disgusted at the hoops to jump through?

[zinja]

ok, so this post is kinda going sideways to the topic, but hey, that's what Mosh is all about. Maybe.

I just wanted to point out that I do believe there is a desperate need for a larger comedy listing... anywhere. There have been numerous occasions when I felt like going out in the past, and tried to find something on, and turned up nothing. Now I know there certainly was something on.

I often turn to the trusty EG - and under 'Comedy', it rarely lists more than 5 to 10 events, and most of them are regular occurances (ie Impro Sundae every Sunday, etc). Nowhere do I see gigs at places like the Empress of India, Pony, 9th Ward, Evelyn, etc etc except on individual groups websites - and that takes a lot of effort to go and hunt down a gig at your local stage. The only reason I know about gigs these days is because lovely people from Mosh tell me about them.

Just on the ideas for a listing... people keep saying 'full time job and still wouldn't be good' but if there were a couple of people working on it....?

ok, so no new points really, just elaborating.

[Mythor]

There're how many people on MOSH? And how many comedy "things" do we still not have in the calendar?

Perhaps if the comedy webmasters who don't have the time to keep their own sites up to date would agree to lend a hand and do even a tiny fraction of the updating on some uber-site, that may be helpful.

But what's "the trusty EG"?

If enough people look at it from enough angles then that may give enough information to someone to give it a go? Who knows. :lookarou: